"Prioritize diversity, inclusion, and psychological safety in learning interventions to foster organizational growth and equity."
Today, we're joined by Sindhuja Parthasarathy, an HR Leader, DEIB Consultant, Psychotherapist, and celebrated Photojournalist. With prestigious degrees and dual passions in talent development and documenting human rights through her lens, Sindhuja is a two-time Laadli UNFPA award winner. Join us as we explore her journey across corporate excellence and impactful storytelling, highlighting her advocacy for change in India’s socio-cultural landscape.
In this enlightening episode, Sindhuja Parthasarathy. She advocates for proactive mental health strategies, intersectional DEI solutions, and coaching interventions to drive sustainable change. Through inclusive leadership and technology integration, this conversation navigates the complexities of modern workplace diversity and inclusion, offering strategic insights for leaders and employees alike.
Episode Highlight
Follow: Sindhuja on Linkedin
Produced by: Priya Bhatt
Podcast Host: Ipshita Sharma
About Springworks:
Springworks is a fully-distributed HR technology organisation building tools and products to simplify recruitment, onboarding, employee engagement, and retention. The product stack from Springworks includes:
SpringVerify— B2B verification platform
EngageWith— employee recognition and rewards platform that enriches company culture
Trivia — a suite of real-time, fun, and interactive games platforms for remote/hybrid team-building
SpringRole — verified professional-profile platform backed by blockchain, and
SpringRecruit — a forever-free applicant tracking system.
Springworks prides itself on being an organisation focused on employee well-being and workplace culture, leading to a 4.8 rating on Glassdoor for the 200+ employee strength company.
"Prioritize diversity, inclusion, and psychological safety in learning interventions to foster organizational growth and equity."
Today, we're joined by Sindhuja Parthasarathy, an HR Leader, DEIB Consultant, Psychotherapist, and celebrated Photojournalist. With prestigious degrees and dual passions in talent development and documenting human rights through her lens, Sindhuja is a two-time Laadli UNFPA award winner. Join us as we explore her journey across corporate excellence and impactful storytelling, highlighting her advocacy for change in India’s socio-cultural landscape.
In this enlightening episode, Sindhuja Parthasarathy. She advocates for proactive mental health strategies, intersectional DEI solutions, and coaching interventions to drive sustainable change. Through inclusive leadership and technology integration, this conversation navigates the complexities of modern workplace diversity and inclusion, offering strategic insights for leaders and employees alike.
Episode Highlight
Follow: Sindhuja on Linkedin
Produced by: Priya Bhatt
Podcast Host: Ipshita Sharma
About Springworks:
Springworks is a fully-distributed HR technology organisation building tools and products to simplify recruitment, onboarding, employee engagement, and retention. The product stack from Springworks includes:
SpringVerify— B2B verification platform
EngageWith— employee recognition and rewards platform that enriches company culture
Trivia — a suite of real-time, fun, and interactive games platforms for remote/hybrid team-building
SpringRole — verified professional-profile platform backed by blockchain, and
SpringRecruit — a forever-free applicant tracking system.
Springworks prides itself on being an organisation focused on employee well-being and workplace culture, leading to a 4.8 rating on Glassdoor for the 200+ employee strength company.
Hello and welcome to the Shape of Work, a podcast series by Springworks. My name is Anoop and I am your host. Each week, we'll be talking to top people managers across the world on the future of work and how it's shaping our workplace. So sit back and get ready to find out more from these movers and shakers, as we have a no-holes bar. Anything goes. Conversation with them about their journey, their insights, their thoughts, most importantly, their ideas and vision for the workplace of the future. Join in on the conversation, leave a comment and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. So today we have Ms Sintuja Parthasarathi with us, who is a celebrated HR leader. Welcome, sintuja, thank you. How are you doing today? I am very good. How are you doing I am good too. Thank you, sintuja. You have years of experience with you. Can you share more about your journey and background for our listeners? Sure?
Speaker 3:Firstly, thanks a lot for inviting me to be a part of this initiative and having me share my thoughts and ideas with this very vibrant community. So I've been in this HR space now for over 19 years and I've had a very interesting journey, varied experiences, starting with talent acquisition, business HR, traditional learning and development, talent management, ode, executive coaching, leadership, development and, of course, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging in global large scale organizations and startup to scale ups. In the last six years, I've been leading talent management and science organizations and throughout this period for about 15 years now I've had 12 careers of sorts. I'm also a photojournalist and I've been documenting human rights issues across the country, mostly focusing on gender, sexuality, sustainability and life. I'm also an independent psychotherapist and therefore fostering a culture of wellness, specifically mental health and organizations, is something that I'm extremely passionate about. Yeah, so that's a little bit about me.
Speaker 2:That's quite an exciting journey you have had. Talking more about well-being, can you suggest how organizations can prioritize and address mental health and well-being in the workplace, especially in the context of DEI? Also, it would be great if you could share specific initiatives and programs that support employees mental health.
Speaker 3:Sure. So firstly, I think the pandemic has been a great catalyst for many employees to prioritize wellness is the key pillar of the DEIB initiatives, and that's wonderful news. And mental health is not a one-time initiative, right, it's a long-term commitment to fostering the culture of wellness, and wellness strategy should really be a comprehensive one that's woven into the DNA of the organization. And by wellness I'm just not talking about mental health, physical, emotional, financial health, and all of this in the context of intersectionality of identities and experiences, and given that today we live in a world of inequalities, inequities, generalized policies, benefits, awareness policies will only go so far. So let's begin with number one policies and programs. I think today many organizations do have access to mental health health. You have your EAP services, you have therapists, you have even admissions to hospitals as a part of these policies. The question to first ask is are these inclusive, accessible and are they considering intersectionality? So, does your EAP provider have therapists who are experienced in working with people from the LGBT community, from the LGBT QIA community, for instance, or people with disabilities? Right? So take a data-informed view of the intersection between mental health and workplace demography to identify and respond to the needs of diverse employees. And then comes the accessibility to mental health resources. Now, research says social stigma is one of the biggest reasons people may not access therapy. Thanks to pandemic, of course, the percentage of people accessing EAP is much higher, and post pandemic too. But still, gender, social conditioning, social stigma, chabu stops people from accessing it, and that's where awareness and conversations that break the stigma is really, really important.
Speaker 3:If you're an early stage organization that's just begin working on mental health awareness, I'm sure you're bringing in experts that create safe spaces to talk about mental health is happening. You're talking about what's mental health, what's what is not mental health, demystifying the mental health terms, talking about when to seek help, letting people know that you don't have to go to a therapist only when you have a mental health disorder it's really something that you work on on an everyday basis. But also moving to moving beyond learning programs and workshops, you have to invest a lot in coaching managers and leaders with the right kind of tools and skill sets that will make them inclusive. I remember I was in a workshop when a senior leader referred to a team member and said I think he he has such an interesting personality. I think he is bipolar. I actually and I say this very carefully we use loose. There are people who would use words like depression or stadium anxiety. You say it's really important to speak to people and educate them on mental health terms and ensure that there is enough education on how to speak to teams about mental health and check in conversations, team meeting, what's the right language that's not triggering or insensitive, and how can managers demonstrate care and empathy and how can really managers be first responders to address mental health in times of campaigns, times of crisis?
Speaker 3:Third, I think we need campaigns and various other forums to destigmatize mental health in multiple channels, showcasing stories about people's personal journeys of resilience and well-being. Maybe somebody can talk about how they dealt with grief after losing a parent, and maybe somebody talks about how they're dealing with the pain of caring for a friend who is going through a life-threatening journey, or leadership sets the tone regarding mental health and proactively raises awareness on mental health, being role models and shares their experiences. And while all of this is about awareness, there is also the preventive care. How do you ensure work itself is not a trigger for poor mental health, right? So we need inclusive and flexible ways of working, of course, and that does reasonable accommodation, but there is also the need to look at employees from diverse backgrounds who are at high risk for microaggressions, unconscious biases and stressors that can impact mental health. But instead we do know that people from the LGBTQI community are at higher risk for microaggressions compared to just gender and heterosexual peers, which may lead to mental health consequences the depression, anxiety, societal ideation and therefore we need supportive strategies as well as preventive interventions and tailored wellness support for them. And we need to identify and proactively course correct behaviors that can lead to workplace stressors for them. And, most importantly, we surely need a wellness-centered ERG.
Speaker 3:There are people who would argue just don't have a wellness-centered ERG. Have a mental health-centered ERG, right? We need a safe space where people can come talk about their experiences, thoughts and ideas without the feeling of being embarrassed, rejected or humiliated for speaking off. We need the peer support, the education and awareness, regular stigma and being there building empathy for each other. So I didn't even want to be in a space where somebody can send out to me saying, hey, I feel anxious, I'm going to take a day off and sleep it off and not feel like they will be judged. I say this because there is a research which says less than one in six people would take a mental health day off. They would rather not turn up or take a bedtime off or sitem in physical illness that day. What we want is the ultimate goal of normalizing conversations around mental health and wellbeing. Definitely, these are some of my quick thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think those are some great insights you have put forward. Also, as a thought leader in the DI space, what trends do you foresee shaping the future of diversity, equity and inclusion, if it's in the workplace?
Speaker 3:Right. We spoke about wellness, so let me zoom out and speak about overall DEI, right? 2023 has been a tough year for DEI. Often I say DEI A, b, diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, belonging, and it's not going anywhere. In fact, we're going to look beyond poconism, we're going to look beyond political correctness, right. Firstly, I think organizations are going to be more and more transparent about specific goals, more accountable and from everyone, starting from the CEO to executive leadership, cross the board and it's not just a HR mandate. And if there is commitment and accountability coming from there and if leaders are going to publish their OKRs or KPIs, it's going to populate across the organization. Now, once the commitment is there and everyone's made it their personal priority.
Speaker 3:Now let's talk about the pillars of the DIB. Traditionally, organizations could afford to focus on certain areas. For instance, gender and sexuality and race have been big areas of work, right? And organizations could say, hey, gender and sexuality this year, the race, generation and culture will be big areas of focus next year, so on and so forth. So this kind of sequential inclusion work was there. Now, of course, wellness, disability, accessibility, neurodivergence and social mobility, which is class economic background is getting bigger. But what if someone is older, autistic, economically disabled and is from a minority community? Or what if there is a heterosexual man grappling with anxiety issues, is a caregiver for his old parents and wants to access fertility benefits? So the sequential inclusion can leave people behind. So organizations will have to start looking at all the pillars of the DIB together and has to look at intersectionality, and intersectionality is going to be most important. Of course, based on the demographics of your organization and based on business priorities, you will have your DI goals for the year.
Speaker 3:It is important to look at all of those areas. Just to clarify what intersectionality is that? A calculation that each of us and every one of us have a unique experience of privilege, influence, emotional impact and maybe even marginalization and discrimination based on where we come from. So just to give you an example, let's go back to wellness. If you are an organization that's looking at workplace menopause and support, you might want to take an intersectional approach to creating policy support by understanding healthy inequities and cultural nuances. So let's say, race, disability and sexuality. Based on these three parameters, how women experience, vocalized and receive support can be very different. Or rather, how all of those people who identify as women experience, vocalized and receive support can be very different, right? So that's the second point.
Speaker 3:Thirdly, therefore, organizations will have to and many have already invested in nuanced understanding of the roots of the challenges that make people at workplace feel like they don't belong. So belonging is a parameter, is very, very important. So DH, biases of stereotypes, legal geographical constraints, historical marginalization, microaggressions that work which may not be very obviously visible. So, if you're on the tip of the iceberg, you need to go beyond that and have a very clear definition of what does success mean to us and, based on that, design solutions that can create systemic challenges, systemic changes, with the right kind of support structures.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about awareness and education. We spoke about awareness and education in the context of wellness. Now, today, what research tells us is 70% of companies offer some kind of DEI training and conscious bias is implicit bias. Only 35% of companies measure the impact of training. What kind of impact is it creating? What actions do they follow through? Surely, of course, it sparks some change. Continuous conversations are happening and those are important, but there is a need to continuously do this through the year, throughout, but leading through the organizations with campaigns, the ERGs and various other platforms.
Speaker 3:But more importantly, the focus has to be systemic rather than individual focused. Again, what research tells us is that all of these programs are focusing on the individual. It is point in time and it distributes accountability and may not result in widespread behavioral change, and the need is to transition from performative to actionable allyship. What that means is you have to move beyond just merely expressing support by making symbolic gestures and implement concrete actions that will fight against injustice and inequalities, which means you and I, if we are doing learning programs, we have to equip people on how to learn and learn about experience of marginalized communities. What are the stereotypes and biases that exist? Of the LGBT community, of people who are grappling with mental health issues? What is the intersectionality? What are the legislation changes? How can you and I cultivate not just empathy, not just how do we understand microaggressions, but what can we actually do about it? How do we interrupt when we see somebody making a bias statement? What do we do and how do we proactively champion? How can we be allies day in and day out? That's what we'll have to look at as we move on. And then, when we look at solutions we already spoke about solutions being systemic we also have to look at DEI solutions being rooted in context, being more measurable, quantifiable, scalable and having sustainable impact. Today, only one in five companies have a way to measure business impact of DEI, or rather perceived value of DEI. It says a work they study and measurement, not just in terms of participation but in terms of outcome. Right, a long way to go in terms of measurement. And, of course, most importantly, impact of technology in DEI, or rather use of technology in DEI. That's going to be really big. Today we have generator, we AI. It's already making its way in the TA world. It's used to mitigate biases in the hiring process as well as used in the online workplace interactions. It can pick up bias language in job descriptions. It can be used to bubble up non-inclusive language and Slack. So you will have you will see more of it being used in the DEI space.
Speaker 3:One last point there is much more of it. Maybe. Just one last point is, of course, dei being used a lot to look at future of work or the hybrid work in the hybrid work space. Right, if we have to look at the underrepresented folks and see how to empower them on. How do they structure their work? What do they want to work on? Who do they want to work on? How do they prioritize their work around different time blocks in a way that makes them most productive and engaged? Right, if you're a parent, if you're a caretaker, if you're from the LGBT community, if you're disabled, what are your needs and priorities and what kind of reasonable accommodation is going to make you most engaged and how can I really make workplace most empowering for you? I think that's the best thing that I will see folks up to soon. Definitely those are some, I think. Sorry, I was just going to say that we only scratched the surface of the idea and a lot more work to do.
Speaker 2:Definitely, those are some great points that you have raised. Also, speaking of awareness and education that you raised, can we deep dive into some of the successful LND initiatives that have positively impacted diversity and inclusion within the organizations that you have worked with? Also others that you see are trending and will become big?
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah. Before even I go on to specific initiatives, the first thing that I would say is ensuring that we have representation from people of different identities, experiences and backgrounds, given the boundaries of the program, of course, creating a safe, respectful space and making sure that the content, design and facilitation reflects the diverse voices and ensuring everybody feels seen and respected, represented, goes a long way. Intentionally, I'm sure you've heard of these four terms inclusion safety, learner's safety, contributor's safety and challenger's safety, so ensuring the psychological safety in all of the LND interventions. I think that is the beginning point. Now let me talk about specific Unconscious bias, implicit bias, training.
Speaker 3:I've done this probably for the last nine, eight, nine years or so in different contexts and it has evolved over the period of time and, like I said, more from just being performative to more actionable. The allyship programs have changed. It's moved from being very generic to being very, very specific. I would talk about all of all of the areas of LND. I'd be to now specifically talking about just gender, just speaking about the LGBT community, to men as allies, to talk about neurodivergence, to accessibility, employment. Activism is very big today. For instance, you're seeing it in companies like Netflix, disney, amazon, and this is especially true for Gen Z, who finds us likely to speak up on food companies accountable for social issues, the AIB, environmental impact, mental health, philanthropy and ethical work conditions. So that's, that's one employment activism. And how are we going to leverage that so that to coaching approach to the AIB? So there's a meta analysis of nearly 500 implicit bias studies that found that long term behavioral change happens only with coaching.
Speaker 3:As much as I spent a lot of time with training, training can only lead to a heightened awareness that biases exist, what it says, as leaders eventually will lack the tools of sustained corrective action and can go back to status cornerless. You follow it up with coaching. So I spent the last few years doing a lot of coaching and taking a coaching approach that's personalized, contextualized, competency based, intersectional of course, and also, most importantly, linked to the business and the DEI goals. So if your DEI goal is to have more women representation at different levels, then that's right. So coaching approach to DEI. Also. Then, working with underrepresented groups, for instance employees of color women, the DEI community can experience an emotional attacks, maybe because of actual, real or perceived bias, microaggressions, lack of psychological safety, so on and so forth, which then impacts their productivity or engagement, and again over the last decade, almost in large organizations in the start of the scale ups. I've led various programs with women and leadership groups across many levels in competency building programs and talk about how can women navigate the career ladder, how can they manage the biases, how do they negotiate microaggressions, what do they do about harassment, how do they assert their voices, how do they negotiate, how do they build their social capital? So on and so forth.
Speaker 3:Another intervention that I find very powerful but I have not had a chance to work on is reverse mentoring. Now I was speaking to somebody about this and they asked me hey, why do we even call it reverse? How should age be reversed? But anyway, let's call it reverse for now.
Speaker 3:Today we have four to five generations at workplace and supposedly the next 10 years, gen Z is going to be 50% in the workforce. There's a data that I was reading this morning which says 57% of Gen Z would like to be influencers and, given a chance, mentoring is such a great way to influence somebody. So imagine a VP of finance receiving mentorship from a junior analyst on the latest FinTech trends, or a senior marketing leader being mentored by a recent college graduate on Best Various Snapchat as a marketing channel. It's such a great high for them and it's a great way to kind of break ageism and bring people across the organization together. So I usually want to try it sometime and organizations like BNYMillion and PWC use it very, very successfully and have had great engagement and productivity and retention with reverse mentoring.
Speaker 3:But of course you'd be very careful in the way you implemented, very clearly define the why and the what of it, the needs, the priorities, the goals, train the mentors very carefully, prepare the reports, match them really well and execute it clearly to make sure it is successful. That's something that I would want to try out. I also done a lot of work with anti-sexual harassment as a post consultant, member and trainer. But what I believe is there's no point of working on post in isolation. It was an organization. If you've already done a lot of work with educating people on unconscious biases, discrimination, stereotypes, so on and so forth, and created a culture of respect and anti harassment, then most of your work is already done on posh kids, talking about posh kids much easier and research confirms that. Research says that if you're an organization that has high level of biases and gender stereotypes, then posh cases are also higher. Inclusive leadership we spoke about it. I think that's an area that I've done a lot of work on training and coaching leaders on how do you demonstrate on a day-to-day basis and role model, inclusivity in your values, beliefs, thoughts and actions, social and emotional learning. Being able to create various forums, platforms, engagements, where people invest in demonstrating a deep sense of respect, compassion and empathy, be it social intelligence kind of programs, emotional intelligence, and today, in the context of hybrid working, I think that has gained a lot of importance.
Speaker 3:We spoke about ERGs earlier. I just wanted to make a point which I've forgotten that sometimes they're actually doing away with ERGs also because they believe that ERGs can also perpetuate a single identity perspective. So you could have parents sitting together and ignore the non-parents, so they believe the heterogeneity is important and have people of intersecting identities come together and interact and create and therefore they create powerful knowledge sharing, collaborative workforce identities. That's a different perspective. However, that could be useful. Yeah, so these are some of the quick learning initiatives. So, yeah, my quick thoughts are on those.
Speaker 2:So Senthooja, while speaking about mental health, you spoke about enabling managers to learn about inclusive leaders In your talent development journey. I'm sure there is a lot of work on leadership development. Watch me and some of your learnings from the best practices in that space.
Speaker 3:I think leadership development has gone through a huge evolution over the decade that I've been working on it and surely, of course, I've learned a lot of lessons and tried an area. So the first is one size doesn't fit all right, and that's surely out of the window. It's also not a package of evergreen topics, and leadership development is also not a one and done event. Today, I think, we're looking at organizations investing in leadership development programs which are most aligned to the context of this, right, and you have to look at what's the priority of the CEO, what's their vision, what is the leadership strategy, the goal in the long run, and, of course, dynamically adapt to what's today. For instance, five years back we were in talking about inclusive leadership in the way that we are today. Or, since the pandemic, we've been talking about, for instance, hearing hybrid teams and driving engagement and productivity in that context. We were in before that, right, talking about program design, leadership development program design. What I've learned to trial and error is to do a powerful blend of macro and micro learning elements, and that's really really important, right. So macro is your large scale comprehensive learning program elements that cover a wide range of competencies or skills over a longer extended period of time, right. So you have to identify what are those skills or what are those anchor elements which call for your immersive face to face learning experiences, where you really need your participants to be in physical space, right. And once you find those anchor elements, then you find out what are those micro learning elements that you need, what are your supporting virtual elements which can then blend in with your macro learning elements to create powerful blended developmental experiences. You have your on demand videos or your virtual workshops, book summaries, follow up, coaching sessions, so on and so forth. And lastly, of course, nudges. I think nudges are really really powerful. Nudges, I think, are your simple ways to triple or even quadruple the value of your existing learning programs. Today you can do maybe just a one and done training program. Today, maybe a two day program, a three day program, which is your macro learning program, and then you can have a year long continuous micro learning exercises. You can have nudges throughout the year that reinforce the learning. That's how powerful nudges could be. And today you have technology, you have Slack based platforms that can be nudges. They are cost effective and they meet the learners where they are. They appeal to the today's learners. They're not. They don't lead to cognitive overload. They, what research tells us is micro learning can improve knowledge retention as much as 80% and it can be spread across over a period of time.
Speaker 3:What is replaced? Your traditional 70, 20, 10 model is is the three? Three is two. One learning model state right which helps the leaders move from knowing something theoretically to really applying it on the ground. So for every learning that they have, you have at least three exercises or three application events that helps them internalize the concept or be able to learn that behavior such that it becomes muscle memory for them. These three could be role playing exercises, coaching, it could be on the job, practice, it could be reflection, discussion, spear learning, whatever it is Right. And if you're able to bring those in your micro learning on address, I think that's what is most effective.
Speaker 3:Many organizations are, of course, looking at customizable learning environments that are either tech learning platforms which are able to adapt to the, adapt the content according to the learner roles, their goals, their needs. The content is adaptive, it is socialized, it is data-driven, it's personalized and, most importantly, we are able to measure the ROI more effectively. You can have in the flow learning. So if a manager is stuck. If a leader is stuck, they can do live texting with the coaches and learn how to kind of manage or navigate the situation. Speaking to the coaches, I think that's most effective today. It's one of the best practice. I'm also a big fan of group coaching face-to-face group coaching exercises. I think it's also very scalable and affordable a way it's worked really well for me in the organizations that I've worked with. It's one. Of course, you're working with an expert coach, but also there is a whole lot of peers that you're working with and you learn from the style and the approach that peers have, and that insight helps you learn a lot.
Speaker 3:Then comes the measuring of the success of the leadership programs. You're looking at your attendance form or smiley sheets. I think that time of all of that is gone. Today You're looking at manager effectiveness, team engagement, retention, change in key behaviors. I think that's what we have to look at today.
Speaker 3:A trend something that I've experienced more as a participant I've not tried out is virtual reality for leadership development being able to create simulated environment space where leaders can actually practice leadership skills in their own space and without any risk or judgment. I think that is very helpful. What this virtual reality simulation experience does is it helps understand how they will behave in different situations. For instance, you could have a performance check-in conversation where you're coaching somebody. You can have a top talent career conversation or whatever VIP conversation. You could do a brainstorming idea with your entire team. You can work basically anywhere with VIP app. You can use speech technology, eye tracking technology, active listening. We are can measure leaders behavioral skills and offer tangible feedback. So this, some organizations are investing in it and I think this could be one of the future trends that we could see. Yeah, so these are some of my quick thoughts.
Speaker 2:Awesome, some great practices you have told and suggested us. Before we wrap this up, I wanted to ask one more question. Being a mother and being in the leadership role managing global teams must add an extra layer of complexity to your busy life. How can you manage to balance your personal and professional responsibilities, and what advice do you have for others navigating the similar challenges?
Speaker 3:I'm happy to share my journey, but I do believe there is not one right path for navigating parenthood with leadership roles, so I'm not sure that I'll offer advice. I think the right path is something for each person to figure out as they go that which works for you, your family and, most importantly, what nourishes you and what honors your wife and each. I think our choice is incredibly personal and different for us. So, firstly, I think my husband is an equal parent in the household and that's one of the ways I managed to integrate work life. I was very clear I wanted to find a partner who is progressive enough, who is not patriarchal, who believes in equal parenting, and thankfully I found well. I chose well, so I think that chose your partner wisely to have a good career. I believe in that, but despite that, there are days there are many days we go crazy managing kids.
Speaker 3:We have two and a half year old friends, so we have two kids, we have two careers, we have two sets of aging parents and both of us have other passions. So I'm a photojournalist, he's a cartoonist. We had dual careers before kids, so we're still trying to not give that up completely. So there are too many. And then there is traffic, so there are too many variables to juggle and we're trying to do as much. Firstly, we outsource it all, or as much as possible, and I must acknowledge the privilege that we have in having the financial liberation. So I have childcare, I have a cook, I have a house help and I know for a fact that I can't and I don't, I can't with Paul and I don't bother with the guilt of not being able to manage the household the way the women of that generation did, the way my mom did, and I don't beat myself over a messy house or having laundry piled up and I'm okay, right, I'm okay with that. I also kind of post on my journalist career for some time and I do miss that life and identity, but I guess I have to make the choice. I believe that we can have it all, not just at the same time, short time. With that, I'm also okay with asking for help and I think we really really need the kind of support system at home, at work. I have friends, mentors, coaches who help me navigate difficult situations. If you don't ask, the answer is always no, right. So there is no shame in vulnerability. There is no shame in asking for help. There are days, of course, I break down and I prioritize my mental health at any cost. I know I can't pull from an empty cup Right.
Speaker 3:One of the things that I've learned is to be very, very assertive. I set clear boundaries. I say what I can and I want what I can't do. I think for the first six months to one year after my kids, I changed my WhatsApp status to tell mom expect delayed response. So I was literally on a survival mode then and as leaders to in our workplace.
Speaker 3:And we have to say no and not now to many things and we have to prioritize to things that matter most at a given time. And this is the hardest thing to do, because you will be perceived as rude at times and unfortunately we just have to prioritize and pick what's important and, most importantly, I'm constantly advocating for myself at workplace and I believe parents need to do that for organizations to be more inclusive. Of course, dei is also my job, but even otherwise, I think I believe not just parents, caregivers and all of us have to be advocating for ourselves to organizations to be more inclusive. Challenge stereotypes and biases. When people come to us and say, hey, how is your husband managing if you're traveling, it's challenging biases and stereotypes and we have to make sure that people are accommodating parents of caregivers and ensuring that you're asking for all that that we deserve.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, indhuja, for taking out the time today and sharing your journey, as well as your tips and tricks that we can also accommodate in our lifestyle. Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Indhuja, Thanks for having me. It was really really nice sharing all of this. I hope this was useful. This really was useful.
Speaker 2:I hope to do many more sessions with you in future.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you Great meeting you Likewise.